On IDRlabs Typings

By S. Kim

Firstly, I want to acknowledge that I am well aware of the extensive research that IDRlabs typically conducts for their celebrity typings. I believe many people underestimate the amount of research IDRlabs did with regards to most of their typings, as they go above and beyond compared to other typological websites. Whether it was through studying biographies, books, interviews, or speeches, their approach to typing people is clearly more exhaustive than any other site I have come across. Even to this day, I have not found another website that comes close in terms of their thoroughness. When reading their articles or watching their videos explaining a celebrity's type, one gets the impression that their process is by no means flippant like most of the internet. Instead, it is comprehensive and thorough. The amount of work that IDRlabs (then CelebrityTypes) went into typing people was actually quite astounding, all things considered. As they themselves said, "the assessment process employed by this site relies on multiple information streams and cues to arrive at a type."

However, that doesn't mean, even within their own framework, that I have to agree with all of their typings (although I generally trust them, as most of their typings are at least supported by more substantial reasoning and evidence than most of the internet). Throughout its history, IDRlabs has made revisions to their typings. For instance, they initially typed Stephen Colbert as an ENTP for years until he took a test and identified as an INFP, and while test results are something we should always be skeptical about with regards to a person's type, this prompted them to reconsider and ultimately modify his typing to INFP after reviewing his interviews, which ultimately appeared more fitting (and I agree with them that Colbert is INFP after watching many of his interviews myself). So even if their methodology is arguably the best I've come across from a typology site, they are still susceptible to occasional mistypes. Here is a list of my opinions on IDRlabs typings of the people I am familiar enough with:

• In agreement with IDRlabs:

Richard Feynman: ENTP

Barack Obama: ENTP

Terry Gilliam: ENTP

Stephen Fry: ENTP

Camille Paglia: ENTP

David Cronenberg: INTP

Bill Gates: ENTJ

Penn Jillette: ENTJ

Ted Kaczynski: INTJ

Osho: ENFP

Milo Yiannopoulos: ENFP

Fidel Castro: ENFP

Orson Welles: ENFP

George Carlin: ENFP

Oliver Stone: ENFP

Ricky Gervais: ENFP

Jack White: ENFP

P. J. O'Rourke: ENFP

Robert Smith: INFP

Tori Amos: INFP

Thom Yorke: INFP

Morrissey: INFP

David Lynch: INFP

Louis C.K.: INFP

Stephen Colbert: INFP

Neil deGrasse Tyson: ENFJ

Zack de la Rocha: ENFJ

Richard Nixon: ISTJ

Robert De Niro: ISTJ

Gerald Ford: ESFJ

Alicia Keys: ESFJ

Theodore Roosevelt: ESTP

Andrew Jackson: ESTP

Franklin D. Roosevelt: ESTP

Donald Trump: ESTP

George W. Bush: ESTP

Lyndon B. Johnson: ESTP

Sasha Grey: ESTP

Steve Jobs: ISTP

Frank Zappa: ISTP

Stanley Kubrick: ISTP

Eminem: ISTP

Karl Pilkington: ISTP

Ronald Reagan: ESFP

Richard Branson: ESFP

Mark Cuban: ESFP

Tony Robbins: ESFP

Tyler the Creator: ESFP

Frank Ocean: ISFP

Audrey Hepburn: ISFP

• IDRlabs typings I'm skeptical of:

Elizabeth Olsen: ENTP

Matthew Perry: ENTP

Joe Biden: ENFJ

Jerry Seinfeld: ENFP

Jennifer Lawrence: ENFJ

Dana White: ESFP

Will Smith: ESFP

Hugh Hefner: ESFP

 

• In disagreement with IDRlabs:

Gwen Stefani: ENFP –> ESFP

Carly Rae Jepsen: ENFP –> ESFP

Björk: INFP –> ISFP

Why I Care About IDRlabs Typology

By S. Kim

One might ask, "Why do you care about IDRlabs' typings?" After all, the typological community is just one big mess of disagreement after disagreement, with not much of a consensus on even some of the baseline fundamental aspects of the theory. As an IDRlabs commentor has stated, "typology is an inherently subjective, constantly changing field where everyone has their own highly variable ideas." In other words, one's conception of a type will generally differ from another person's conception of a type. As IDRlabs themselves has said, "one’s theoretical framework for approaching typology can be likened to the language one speaks. As anyone who speaks more than one language will know, there is not always the possibility of a perfect translation. Yet we all use the same terminology; INFJ, ESTP, Fe, Fi, and so on. What you get when you see an online free-for-all discussion about someone’s type is like 20 people, all shouting at one another because they think they understand what the other party is saying when they hear the letters 'INFJ', but in reality they are all speaking different languages."

However, the system IDRlabs has put forth has made the most sense to me and resonated with me the most (minus their axes theory, I find it a bit too heavy-handed. But I get it, Heracletian yada yada yada). I have never seen a typological system, based on Carl Jung's theory, that had as much sophistication, originality, and rigor as the one IDRlabs has put forth. In my opinion, they are better than most, if not all, of the typology sites I have encountered with regards to their methodology and research. They're clearly very knowledgeable in fields outside of Jungian Typology (such as Psychology and the Social Sciences), and I appreciate their use of scientifically supported theories such as the Millon Clinical Multiaxial Inventory (MCMI) for assessing aspects of personality that lie outside the realm of Jungian Typology, rather than using other typological theories like the Enneagram or Socionics. I also appreciate their minimalist approach to type (i.e., type doesn't exhaust a person's personality), which appeals to me much more than the black-and-white claims that reduce the complexity of a human's entire personality. 

But another aspect that is worth mentioning is their comments section. I get a different vibe from their comment section compared to most other typology forums (though you will still get the odd bad comment here and there). There are valuable insights that show up in the responses to questions posed by some of the readers, as well as well-written arguments and counterarguments, whether it'd be by the admins themselves or the commentors. It's clear that the admins and some of the people who followed IDRlabs are very bright people.

So, while the typological community as a whole can't seem to come to a consensus on anything, we can argue for or against someone's type to IDRlabs using the framework that they themselves have provided, and there are a few individuals that I disagree with regards to IDRlabs typings and I am here to offer my perspective.

Regarding some of my gripes with them, I already mentioned my slightly negative take on their axes theory. Their axes theory kind of makes sense in a broad and subtle perspective, but it breaks down when considered more important than that. I think the issue, from my standpoint, comes from them (and a number of their followers) overemphasizing and prioritizing certain functions and types over others in regards to how the axes represented types. As for another minor gripe, some of their older articles are admittedly quite weak (like their Christopher Hitchens one), but with the amount of great free articles they have, they more than make up for it in that department.

Why Gwen Stefani is ESFP (to IDRlabs)

By S. Kim

IDRlabs (formerly CelebrityTypes) has, in my opinion, mistyped Gwen Stefani. I sent them emails regarding her type, but got no response, perhaps due to them not being as focused on typology as they once were years ago (or that my email wasn't thorough enough in my explanation). I totally understand why they aren't in the process of typing people right now, but hopefully they are at least open to reevaluating this case here. To get it out there, I don't hate IDRlabs, in fact they are my favorite source when it comes to typology, as mentioned here. In fact, I generally agree with most of their typings (or at least the ones I know enough about to know their "best fit" type). However, in this case, I disagree with them, and I will seek to give an explanation as to why I do.

Extroverted Perception

Stefani: "In the beginning ... I didn't know what I was doing at all, and I still don't. I kinda just get up there [on stage] and just do whatever comes out." [Source]

Stefani: "Well, I think we didn't even realize that we were doing this. We just kinda got here and were like, 'okay, let's go.' It's kinda fun though when you don't really realize what you're doing sometimes." [Source]

Stefani: "Every night's different. You can't tell if it's gonna be a good show or a bad show. That's what's kind of exciting, I guess, about it. You never know, [you just] get up there and see what happens." [Source]

Stefani: "We're just trying to enjoy every second of it while it's here, and we don't take one day for granted. It's just like everybody wants to be nice to us now and be our friends, and we're like, 'Okay! Tomorrow you probably won't like us, but that's cool. We'll take it while we can get it'." [Source]

Stefani: "No breaks here [on tour], but that's okay."

[Interviewer: "Performing with a broken foot; you're a trooper."]

Stefani: "We all [at the band] are [troopers] here. We've been working really hard, but this is our little chance, so we're trying to take advantage of it, you know?" [Source]

Stefani: "If you look like through all the clothes over the last ten years that I've worn, you can see a growth. I definitely was really into like cartoony, you know, primary colors and that whole thing in the early stages, and then I think I've matured a bit over the years. ... I used to wear dresses more, but now I'll wear pants more, and then depending on how fat I'll feel that day, I'll choose this outfit or that outfit. You know what I mean, it just depends. Every day is different, so I'm wearing black today." [Source]

[Interviewer: "It's incredible to me that you don't have this grandmaster plan..."]

Stefani: "I don't have a plan; it's been basically chasing dangling carrots everywhere I look." [Source]

All else being equal, the quotes above showcase a preference for extroverted perception (Se/Ne) over introverted perception (Si/Ni). Moreover, if we had to pick between Se or Ne, the quotes fit Se better on the whole as it is the Se type that is the type most likely to make the most out of the given situation. Ne types can often get too caught up in their introspection and associations in contrast to the Se type's more (non-typological) intuitive approach of feeling the actual external situation to the fullest without mulling over it (as exemplified by most of the quotes). As Mary Arrington (in her IDRlabs article: ESFP vs ENFP, Part 2) has stated about Ne types, "because of [their] focus on multiple possible perspectives on reality at the same time, ENPs are actually quite poor at dealing with situations where it is necessary to engage with factual reality as it is happening here and now, and they can sometimes fail to take advantage of the opportunities they come across when compared with Se types." 

Another thing to consider is that Ne (or just N in general), as stated by Myers, views the "immediate situation as a prison from which escape is urgently necessary," meaning that, as Boye Akinwande puts it, "NP types constantly feel a need to escape and transcend the immediate givens of any situation, even if they do not quite know how such an escape could be achieved" (for the Ne type, one of the ways this can often manifest in them is seeking ulterior viewpoints), as opposed to Se typically preferring to stay with the actual experience and be acquainted with the opportunities that arise in present reality (as exemplified by most of the quotes).

Now, obviously one can find real-life examples of discontent Se types and more immediate-inclined Ne types, so this section obviously isn't my main argument but rather just a starter.

Why Se over Ne

Now getting more into the actual meat of the argument. As mentioned above, while the quotes in the last section may arguably lean more towards Se on the whole, it didn't really rule out Ne (as I mentioned, just as discontent Se types exist, so do more immediate-inclined Ne types). One might ask while reading this 'Well do you have a more concrete example of Gwen Stefani showcasing a preference for Se over Ne?' and I say yes to that! Just as IDRlabs has said that Frank Ocean "avoids conceptualizations and associations in interviews" as evidence for S over N, same thing applies to Gwen Stefani:

[Interviewer: "Gwen, tell me how you got the name 'No Doubt'?"]

Stefani: "Well, the band's been together for about five years, and about five years ago, a guy that used to sing with us, which doesn't anymore, used to say this word, and so now that is the word we use. A really simple story, not really complex at all." [Source]

[Interviewer: "You got different lyrics and then completely different style, where does that come from?"]

Stefani: "You might wanna ask Eric about the lyrics as he does a lot of the writing and he's down there." [Source]

As IDRlabs has stated "a person is unlikely to just sit idly by as a subject pertaining to his or her dominant function comes up. It’s like a cat seeing a big chunk of red meat just lying around. One’s imagination is stimulated and one is moved to participate – to dig in and grab a chunk of meat for oneself." Her answers are not exactly what one would expect from an N dominant type, right? In the 2 examples above (both of which are from the same interview), she avoided 2 opportunities for "conceptualizations and associations".  I have another example of her Se preference below:

[Interviewer: "How do you describe your sense of style?"]

Stefani: "I don't. I always hate talking about fashion, I swear. To me, fashion is something you don't talk about, it's something you do, you know what I mean? [Fashion is something] you wear and you look at." [Source]

Based on this, we can infer that her "cognition tends to be more drawn towards objects as they exist physically, experiencing them in their entirety and as they are" (As Boye Akinwande has about Se in his article: ISTP vs INTP). In this case, she doesn't "bypass" the object (in this case, fashion) to get to its associations but rather views the object as something that stands on its own terms and merits. One could also argue that there is also a bit of Fi in this quote too.

Furthermore, according to IDRlabs themselves, Se "operate[s] off of phenomena that are ... capable of standing on their own (i.e. being thought more 'self-evident')" whereas Ne "combine[s] different (and differing) perspectives to comprise elements in the illustration of an abstract idea". Out of those descriptions, which do you think fits Gwen Stefani more based on the examples I provided? Want another quote that suggests Se?

Stefani: "To be from Orange County and try to play in LA, it was like taboo, kind of because they were like, you know, 'Oh, behind the Orange Curtain, blah blah blah.' But if you really look at it, it's all one big concrete thing. If you drive to Orange County, it's not like you're going to go through fields or anything." [Source]

Overall, the quote seems to suggest a person with a marked preference for actuality as opposed to conceptualization or abstract association. That is to say that she prefers to see the actual existence of things (the physical reality of the situation as opposed to what was intended, expected, or believed). In this case, she is emphasizing if one looks at it objectively, there is no significant physical or geographical barrier between LA and Orange County (referring to it as "one big concrete thing") despite all the history and preconceived notions between the 2 cultures.

It should be noted that cognitive processes are theoretical symbols for trying to explain certain preferences rather than ability, that is to say that Gwen Stefani isn't incapable of "Ne stuff" but rather she simply prefers "Se stuff".

What is her main Judging function?

I agree with IDRlabs that she is a Feeling type, that is to say that her Feeling process is fully conscious. The Feeling functions, as IDRlabs puts it, "is a comparative over-development or heightened development of sentiment." As for which Feeling function, I also agree with IDRlabs that she's an Fi user. Her values are primarily oriented towards the subjective (an island to itself) and are put forth in a take-it-or-leave-it fashion:

Stefani: "I think that the reason why I started making clothes for myself was because I think fashion is kind of like an extension of your personality, and I've always kind of been crazy about having things that, you know, no one else has. It's like a kind of mental thing, I don't know." [Source]

Stefani: "I really like secondhand clothing just because, you know, usually you find one and no one else is gonna have it. I don't know why I think that's so important, but I like being an individual, you know? I think that's kind of what fashion is all about – being an individual and trying not to be like everyone else."[Source]

Stefani: "I think the thing that hurts me the most, that bums me out the most, would be the kind of rivalry between bands and the way people put each other down and automatically assume that that band sucks because, for whatever reason, you know. And the funnest thing when you're on tour is hooking up with other bands and hanging out, and it's like you're on tour with them and you can totally relate to each other. Even if you don't really like their music, somehow after you meet them and hang out with them and watch them and see them go through the same day that you went through, you go 'they're good!' you know? There's something you find that you like about them. So I think that part of it, I hate all that, you know, it's like it's art and it's people expressing themselves and there's no rules and [you] should be able to just [express yourself]." [Source]

[Interviewer: "In reading reviews of the CD ... everyone says it's got a love theme. Maybe that's what you're throwing out there?"]

Stefani: "I think it might have some love stuff in there, so probably it would qualify under this segment of L's but ... at the same time, I just write right from my heart [and] whatever is on my mind." [Source]

[When asked how she has managed being a celebrity and dealing with the attention she receives for her fashion choices, personal life, and appearance]

Stefani: "If you kinda thought that people were thinking about you all the time, it's kind of a weird thing, isn't it? And for me, my life has pretty much been the same as it always has been. I hang out with these guys every day, and that's pretty much what I do. I wake up in the morning, I put something on that is gonna make me feel good, or if I have a fat day, I'll wear the baggy pants, you know what I mean? I'm just like that same normal chick from Orange County that wakes up and hangs out with these guys and sings songs. So, I don't know, I don't really think about [what other people are thinking] too much. ... It's really fun to get all the outfits together and that stuff ... But mainly, the music's what's pretty much the most important part, and especially coming off of making this record where for me personally, I think I'm putting in more creatively than I ever have. And to be able to like do that feels really rewarding. And when everyone wants to just talk about what color hair I have and what lipstick shade I'm wearing, it gets a little annoying." [Source]

It's important to not simply focus on the contents (beliefs, ideas, etc.) but also the manner in which these sentiments are expressed (hence why it is important to actually watch these interviews to gain better context). 

Why ESFP over ISFP

Now both SFP types have Fi and Se as their uppermost functions but one might ask 'out of the 2 SFP types, which one does Stefani fit better?' Out of the 2 I think ESFP fits better. 

To start off, I would like to quote what Boye Akinwande has stated about types that prefer Fi over Te, "FP types may sometimes refuse to deal with even the most obvious of logical trade-offs, so as not to pollute the purity of their inner world or compromise their ideals." Now ESFPs have auxiliary Fi, meaning they prefer Fi over Te, so what Boye Akinwande said regarding FP types will also, as a rule, be somewhat true of them. However, being Se dominant types, ESFPs are more focused on (as Boye Akinwande says) "the unordered ever-changing object" than the ISFP typically is. As Akinwande has stated "through examining the history of [the Se types] ideas it becomes clear that they are less consistent, more freely adapting themselves to the unordered ever-changing object." Also having Te in the Tertiary position in conjunction with their dominant Se, the ESFP is more willing to compromise purity of Feeling in specific ways in order to adapt to the external situation compared to the IFP type, all else being equal. The following quote from Stefani showcases this immediacy:

Stefani: "There's all these different regulations, like when I'm on stage, you know, I can't wear this or can't wear that, cuz I have to feel the dance or move or whatever. So I would find things that really worked, and then when you just kind of like knock them off, and then use different materials that we'd find or whatever." [Source]