Se vs Ne

"I'm not a planner. I don't like plans of any sort, so I believe in a true following of instinct, and that's a difficult thing to describe because it's not just doing what you want to do. That's not following your instinct. That's a very sort of impoverished idea of it, but really following your instinct in the sense that you keep yourself always open to possibilities, and when the possibilities come, you recognize them, and you go with them." - Helen Mirren (an ESTP)

"Each human individual should think as if he is the first on the earth; he is the Adam or the Eve. Then ... you can open to infinite possibilities. Then you will be vulnerable, available; and the more vulnerable you are, the more available you are, the greater the possibility of life happening to you. Your attitudes function like barriers; then life never reaches to you as it is [because] it [would have] to fit your philosophy, religion, ideology, and in that very fitting, something dies in it. What you get out of it is a corpse: it may look like life but it is not." - Osho (an ENFP)

As IDRlabs has said, "Ne and Se can resemble each other insofar as they are both adaptive, novelty-seeking and on the lookout for possibilities in the external situation." One can often mistake Se types for Ne types, especially if the Se type in question uses the term "possibilities." So one may ask what is the difference when an Se user says something along the lines of being "open to possibilities"? Is it just as simple as the possibilities being of a more grounded/physical nature? Well let's find out.

When Se types (SPs) uses the term "possibilities" they primarily mean options and variations that exist within the current situation. The key mental operation is receptive awareness and responsiveness. They are attuned to the opportunities and paths that become apparent in the immediate context – whether it's a social interaction, a creative task with set boundaries (like a script), or sensory information. They excel at skillfully navigating and utilizing the potential that is already present.

Ne types (NPs) by contrast see "possibilities" as something that can be generated, discovered, or accessed by actively changing perspectives, questioning assumptions, and reinterpreting the existing situation. Their key mental operation is cognitive reframing and active construction. They focus on altering their understanding, letting go of limitations, and actively seeking out new, often intellectual, areas to create or unlock potential that isn't immediately obvious or defined within current boundaries. As beautifully illustrated by Terry Gilliam:

Terry Gilliam: "2001 had an ending that I don’t know what it means. I don’t know, but I have to think about it. I have to work, and it opens up all sorts of possibilities, and probably the next person I speak to has a different idea of what that ending means. So suddenly, we’re in a discussion, and now we’re talking. Ideas come out of that, and that’s what I always want to encourage.”

Ne aims to go beyond the perceived limitations of the current reality or understanding. As Myers has said regarding N types, they “regard the immediate situation as a prison from which escape is urgently necessary.”

In other words, Se is more oriented towards perceiving and working fluidly with the "possibilities" inherent in the current situation, while Ne focuses on transcending the current situation (or the conventional interpretations and ideas of the time) to actively generate or access new realms of possibility. 

To further showcase what I mean regarding Se vs Ne, take this quote from Madonna (an ESTP):

Madonna: "You can be open and observant in any situation. I mean, in a work situation, watching people on a set of a movie or whatever. ... There are endless possibilities of ways to absorb the information."

By contrast here is a quote from Jack White (an ENFP):

White: "When I was growing up, they didn't know it was the blues. I didn't know it was the blues, you know. It took me until I was, like, 20-something years old before I realized, 'Wow, that's exactly what these rappers are saying, exactly what Blind Willie McTell said, it was exactly what Blind Lemon Jefferson was saying.' These are the same stories of struggle and pain and love and violence that we've been hearing for a long time. So once you let your brain understand that and click into that, it opens up a whole range of possibilities of what the blues can be, and then you just can't help but fall in love with ... all aspects of the Blues." (Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzZWjY4tb4Q)

As shown, Madonna's quote emphasizes being "open and observant in any situation" and seeing "endless possibilities of ways to absorb the information." Showcasing how Se users find potential within the concrete and immediate circumstances. She's not transcending the situation as much as noticing the various ways to engage with and learn from what's happening right in front of her.

By contrast Jack White's quote illustrates how realizing the connection between the blues and rap "opens up a whole range of possibilities of what the blues can be" demonstrating Ne's ability to see connections between seemingly different things, leading to new and broader understandings and potential avenues (in this case, for musical exploration). He's not just working with the existing definition of blues; he's expanding it through an assoicative connection.

From this perspective one can say that Se and Ne are very similar, just that Se deals more with actuality whereas Ne "skips over" what's presented (mentally leaving the original stuff behind) via conceptual association, hence why Ne (or just N types in general) have a knack for referencing things don't seem like they directly pertain to the immediate context or topic at hand. As Ignacio Ramonet said of Fidel Castro (an ENFP):

"His thoughts branch, [to him] everything is connected to everything, and the branches form long chains of links. The pursuit of a subject leads him, through an association of ideas, through the recollection of such-and-such a situation or person, to call up a parallel subject, and another, and another, and another, until we are far from the central issue – so far that the interlocutor fears, for a moment, that he's lost the thread."

Now with all that being said, does this mean that Se users are limited to the actual occurrence or that Ne users are incapable of shifting their focus on inherent situation? No, functions are about habitual and instinctual preferences (our "why" of our philosophical worldview and not the "what") but it does not say anything about one's ability. As Jung said of ESPs, Se can and will conceptualize (N), but it's moreso for the sake of enhancing Sensation. So in other words, while one can find Se types that seem to have these off-the-wall ideas, if one digs deeper one can find that these abstractions are really in service for Sensation rather than the other way around:

Tyler the Creator: "[I like] making what feels good! Right now I'm into the color match-up of purple and baby blue, and I know I'll be over it in the coming months, but as of right now it just looks good in my eyes."

By contrast the inverse is true of Ne (or N types in general) with that being sensation is in service for Ne. The Ne type may not even notice it themselves but, all else being equal, objects for Ne types instinctually are starting points from which they can mentally spring off. As van der Hoop as said, a fact is only valued if it contains, to the Ne users eyes, something beyond it. For illustration:

Jack White: "It would have been lame for the White Stripes to use the color red because it looked cool, you know, it has to have meaning behind it, it has to come from someplace that has a deeper story so that if you dug into it you could go deeper and deeper with it, so image for the sake of image is no good. I think that's sort of dead art, but if it has meaning from the get-go things will make themselves, you know, like what we're doing now has a lot of these icy blues and pale blues of the stage production that we have and the artwork for the album, and those came from a pale blue guitar that I had used in an old public school amplifier I was using during the recording; those blues in there exemplified themselves throughout all of that, and if people want to dig deeper into those colors, they can, instead of it just being something [like] 'they put a purple light on me because it looked cool, it doesn't have any meaning to it at all, just purple.' It'd be better if it meant something, I think." (Source; https://youtu.be/9rpIF_U_QLY?feature=shared&t=148)

Of course in the context of art one shouldn't expect an Se types art to be devoid of "read into it" meaning or that an Ne types are are devoid of visual/auditory merit. Any type (if given the resources and time) and create anything, what type measures is one's, as Boye Akinwande put it, "conscious attention (and inattention) that an individual directs towards the contents of consciousness. According to the psychodynamic approach, the functions exist as meta-perspectives that, in theory, are divorced from psychic contents. Rather, they operate as lenses that fundamentally bias the way we conceive of, structure, and relate to information in the psyche." Plus one's judging functions play a role in that too as it can make the Se and Ne type's creations devaite from what is generally expected of them.

So to summarize, Se focuses on the ever-changing "what is" and explores it's inherent variations while Ne moves away from "what is" in an effort to imagine "what could be" by making abstract associations. Se is about fluidly engaging with the "givens" while Ne is about transcending it through conceptual leaps.

Regarding Fe:

Smith: “When you're choosing your work and you're choosing the material that you're putting into the world, you have to understand that somebody else's kids are going to see that. Somebody's grandmother is going to see it. Are they going to be better or worse after they have contact with your material?"

Smith: “The kids that are making these trends, making these songs, don't understand the level of effect that black Americans have around the world. Black Americans are so elevated, it's almost worship. I was asking the kids: What is it about Tupac? Why is that there? I kept asking why. They were saying we want to dress like you dress, wear all the things you wear, talk how you talk. The impression is that black Americans are the dragon slayers. Here we are 13 percent minority in a foreign land, and yet we can make laws, change laws. If Jesse Jackson shows up at Coca-Cola, something changes. It's real important to have balance of the imagery. Yes, there are people who fire guns in the street, but there's also doctors who go to work in those areas to feed their children. That's the image of survivors. The dude that sells the drugs or has the guns or is most willing to kill somebody is the dude that has the greatest potential for survival, or at least that's the perception. So that's what people strive for. What I'm trying to present and what a lot of other artists are presenting is a different approach to survival and a more sound approach to survival. It's a more long-term approach based on intellect and skills that can't be taken away from you: The smartest dude survives the best.”

Smith: “When I see this list and series of nominations that come out, and everybody is fantastic and that’s the complexity of this issue — everyone is beautiful and deserving and it’s fantastic — but it feels like it’s going the wrong direction. ... This is so deeply not about me, this is about children that are gonna sit down and they’re going to watch this show, and they’re not going to see themselves represented. ... we’re a part of this community, but at this current time, we’re uncomfortable to stand there and say that this is OK.”

Side notes:

Another thing to note, as Boye Akinwande has said regarding Fe, "Starting with people as their cognitive nexus, and seeing people as the carriers of principles and values, the Fe type may at times be too beholden to the feedback and opinions of the people they encounter." By contrast, Fi, according to Akinwande, "[due] reacting to the impressions of objects in their own subjective way, they can be allowed to follow their own subjective passions in a sympathetic fashion that exists in a parallel dimension from what is actually possible." Will Smith fits the former whereas his son Jaden Smith seems to fit the latter (Obviously this is an extreme example on Jaden Smith's part but hopefully it is a pointer towards what I mean):

Smith: “Where [me and Jaden are] not alike is [that] Jaden … is fearless in his pursuit of his individuality. I was certainly not like that. … At his age, I was easily injured by people's opinions.”

Lastly, I would add that, for majority of his career, (blank) came first, with self-expression taking a back seat, rather than the other way around:

Smith: “I like to rap about things that everyone can relate to, no color barrier, no age barrier, no financial barrier.”

Overall, his values are more external and mediated between people than internal and an island to itself rather, so to speak.






"When I started making music back in Philly at 12 years old, it was always a big thing in my family that whatever you do, first off, you have to serve God. And then, if you serve God properly, then you can serve your community. So, the idea of service has always been ingrained and connected to the idea of success. So, if you win, you've got to share it." (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RI4v1Cyumu4&list=PLlwrSZTNQcjLyJfDOs5gZHxpST31GuN4n&index=35)

"The most important thing [for my kids] is that they have to stay focused and grounded on the fact that they are giving. You don’t make movies for your ego. You make movies to transfer information, to bring joy, to add value to the world.” (https://www.justjared.com/2013/05/27/will-jaden-smith-after-earth-russia-photo-call/)


Fe is largely outer-focused (interpersonal) and Fi is largely inner-focused (intrapersonal).






















An Fe type is more likely to set up an objective target, i.e. "With regard to Feeling, you are *here*, and instead, you should be *here*." Her scolding is an indication of this. Neither case is really about her personally. An Fi type may be just as disturbed by negative emotion in someone else as an Fe type, but they are less likely to handle the situation by pointing out the impropriety of someone's behavior.

The fact is, he sets up an objective Feeling target and triangulates between himself, Cobb, and the target, i.e. "Based on what we understand to be right, this is where you need to be cognitively with regard to Feeling," as opposed to a subjective Feeling target: "Based on what I understand to be right, you're trying to warp what I understand to be right, and I don't want you to do that."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So after all the evidence of Smith being more Fe than Fi I will now shift my attention more on Te vs Ti, I'll first start off with what you said about the differences between Te and Ti:

 

“Ti judges on the basis of internal, ‘subjective’ ideas. For example, in explaining the success of the iPhone, Ti will more naturally stress the 'internal' aspects of its success such as the iPhone being associated with a certain lifestyle, with its owner being thought to have certain values (such as ingenuity and individuality), and the owner generally being 'ahead of the curve' with regards to social trends. By contrast, the Te function is more likely to stress external parameters, such as the iPhone being amongst the first phones to introduce a touchscreen and Apple’s distinct brand of aesthetics. … Here [Ti is] ultimately concerned with an internal idea that does not directly pertain to the object (in this case the phone). So Ti will seize upon the internal idea in explaining the success of the iPhone (e.g. that it invokes a certain image) and neglect or coerce external facts that might explain the success (e.g. that its screen was better than that of any competing product at the time).”

 

 

 

Smith: "I was in Russia ... one of the reporters tried to kiss me, and I slapped him ... so I get back, I'm pissed like that somebody think [that just] cuz you famous, they get to do whatever they want to do to you. So I'm in my room, and I have ten urgent messages from Jay-Z, right ... he's like, "Call me now!" with exclamation points ... and he sounds winded. He's like ... 'Hey, I just saw the video of you slapping to do it Russia,' he said. 'Just want you to know you'll never make a better piece of entertainment. It's the funniest thing I've ever seen,' he said. 'Me and B, we got a show tonight, and we thinking about canceling it and just staying in and watching you slap this dude.' ...  We talked about it after, he was like 'it was such a breath of fresh air to see you just be authentic' ... I thought that it would be negative and everything. And in this new, yeah, social media world, it actually, the authenticity was accepted and respected, and ... that was a new thing for me."

 

 

 

He's trying to understand the underlying principle at play in this new social media landscape, where seemingly negative actions can be positively received if they are perceived as genuine or "authentic." This internal understanding of a principle guiding external reactions is characteristic of Ti.

 

While he acknowledges the external facts (Jay-Z's call, the positive reception), his explanation prioritizes the internal interpretation of why these facts occurred. He's not dissecting the specific mechanics of social media algorithms or quantifiable data points that led to the positive response.

 

A Te perspective might focus more on the concrete, observable outcomes. For example, a Te explanation might emphasize the increased media attention, the boost in his perceived "realness" in the eyes of the public (which could translate to tangible benefits), or the specific ways in which the video went viral. Smith's explanation is more about the underlying principle of authenticity being valued.

Yes, based on the analysis, Smith's explanation leaned towards prioritizing his subjective idea of the principle of "authenticity" over a detailed analysis of the objective facts of the social media response.

What does "subjective" mean in this context?

In the context of Ti (Introverted Thinking), "subjective" doesn't mean arbitrary or based on feelings. Instead, it refers to ideas, principles, and logical frameworks that originate from within the individual's own mind. These are internal constructs developed through personal analysis, reasoning, and understanding of how things work. While Ti strives for internal consistency and logical accuracy, these frameworks are built from the individual's unique perspective and may not perfectly align with external consensus or objective data.

Explaining Ti Based on the Description and Examples:

Ti, as described, is a cognitive function that judges based on internal, "subjective" ideas. It is concerned with the internal logic, consistency, and principles that an individual develops to understand the world. Facts, from a Ti perspective, are often seen as evidence or proof that supports an already existing internal understanding or idea. Ti users tend to build their own mental frameworks and then look for how external reality fits into these frameworks.

Let's examine the quotes in light of this understanding of Ti:

 * Patton: "If everybody is thinking the same thing, then somebody isn't thinking." This highlights Ti's value for independent thought and questioning the status quo. The "fact" of widespread agreement is seen as proof that individual, internal analysis might be lacking.

 * Kennedy: "All my life I've known better than to depend on the experts." This reflects Ti's tendency to trust its own internal reasoning and judgment over external authority or expert opinion. The "fact" of expert consensus is less important than his own subjective evaluation.

 * Roosevelt: "It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena." This emphasizes the value of direct experience and action over detached observation or criticism. The "facts" of failure or imperfection are less significant than the internal principle of daring and engaging with the world.

 * Roosevelt: "[Even] if [the Man of Action] fails, at least [he] fails while daring greatly; so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory or defeat." This reinforces the internal principle of valuing courage and action, even in the face of potential failure. The "fact" of failure becomes proof of having lived according to this principle, which is seen as superior to inaction.

 * Churchill: "You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." This reframes the "fact" of having enemies as proof of adhering to one's own principles and beliefs. The external reality is interpreted through an internal value system.

 * Jackson: "It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word." This demonstrates Ti's comfort with multiple perspectives and its rejection of rigid, external rules. The "fact" of a single correct spelling is challenged by the internal idea of mental flexibility and the ability to approach things in different ways.

 * Johnson: "Believe in the argument you're advancing. If you don't ... the other person will sense that something isn't there, and no [amount] of reasoning ... will win your case for you." This highlights the importance of internal conviction and belief in one's own logic. The "facts" and reasoning presented are less impactful if the underlying internal belief is absent.

 * Malcolm X: "I'm for truth, no matter who tells it. I'm for justice, no matter who it's for or against." This emphasizes a commitment to internal principles of truth and justice, regardless of external sources or biases. Facts are evaluated based on their alignment with these internal principles.

 * Malcolm X: "The mental flexibility of the wise man permits him to keep an open mind and enables him to readjust himself whenever it becomes necessary for a change." This reinforces the Ti value of internal adaptability and the willingness to revise one's internal frameworks based on new information or insights. Facts can prompt a re-evaluation of internal understanding.

 * Edison: "Restlessness is discontent - and discontent is the first necessity of progress. Show me a thoroughly satisfied man, and I will show you a failure." This frames the "fact" of discontent as a positive indicator of internal drive and a necessary precursor to progress. It's an internal principle that shapes the interpretation of an external state.

 * Edison: "Everything comes to him who hustles while he waits." This suggests an internal principle of proactive effort combined with patience. The "facts" of success are linked to this internal approach of actively working towards a goal while also understanding the element of time.

In summary, all these quotes illustrate how individuals with a strong Ti preference tend to operate from a foundation of internally developed principles and logical frameworks. They often view external facts as evidence that either supports or challenges these internal understandings, and they are more driven by their own subjective reasoning than by simply accepting external information at face value. They seek to understand the "why" behind the "what" based on their own internal logic.

 

So after all the evidence of Smith being more Fe than Fi I will now shift my attention more on Te vs Ti. Per Jung: "[What] is of absolutely paramount importance [to Ti] is the ... subjective idea ... standing ... darkly before the inner vision. Its aim ... [is concerned with] the shaping of that dim image into a resplendent idea." Here is a quote from Will Smith that I think very much fits what Jung says regarding Ti:

Smith: “I have to be moving toward perfection. [I] don’t have to achieve it, but [I] do have to be moving toward it.”
Smith: “I have to be moving toward perfection. [I] don’t have to achieve it, but [I] do have to be moving toward it.”

Here are some other quotes that could indicate that Smith is not as F as meets the eye:

Smith: "[What] always would make me angry [is for someone] to not have any real ... logical base for what [they're] saying."

While Will Smith has some traits one wouldn't typically expect from an ESTP, the ESTP function stack makes more sense than the ESFP one. If you feel that the idea of Will Smith being a ESTP seems far-fetched, I would like to add that Will Smith "seems" much more ESTP than Meryl Streep "seeming" ESTP, Elizabeth Olsen "seeming" ENTP, Charlotte Gainsbourg "seeming" INTP, Taylor Swift "seeming" ISTP, etc. So if those typings exist on your site then Will Smith being ESTP should not be considered that far of a stretch.

 

 

 

“I’m never complacent. With me it will never be ‘This is where we’re going.’ It’s ‘This is where we are now, but we’re going somewhere else.’”

“My movie career is as serious to me as playing chess or golf. I want to do things well. I can’t function if I’m not excelling.”

other typological quotes

Lisa Marie Presley (on Michael Jackson): "He's not stupid; he didn't get where he was because he was stupid. It's unfortunate that not a lot of people know who he really is. He doesn't let anybody see it, and he has some idea about how he should represent himself in public that he thinks works for him, which is this sort of meek, victimy, quiet thing that he does. Which is nothing like how he really is. So, he doesn't let a lot of people see that."

https://youtu.be/zrpMihSD3uI?feature=shared&t=2230

CyHi: "[He has] that type of tediousness ... that type of research. ... Even when he’s doing beats, he’s going through every sample. Every album that came out from ’91 to like ’99, he redid every beat on every Hip Hop album ever. He would get the whole Nas album and do every Nas song one through sixteen — every beat to a T. Nas album, Biggie album, DMX album. Everybody who came out before him. He redid their album just to teach himself how to make beats so it's like if he gon’ be that studious with beats, he’s going to be that way with everything."

L.A. Reid (on Kanye West): "He’s not the egomaniacal guy that people think he is. I think he’s meticulous, he’s detailed, he works really hard, he wants to be great and he really works at it. But in private, he wants to know what you think."

Pusha T: "He’s the most meticulous individual ever."