Why Björk is ISFP (to IDRlabs)

By S. Kim

In this blog, I will explain why I believe Björk to be an ISFP. While there is much to discuss about Björk being an Fi type, this post will mainly focus on why she exhibits characteristics of Se-Ni rather than Ne-Si. Since IDRlabs did not respond to my previous blogs about Gwen Stefani and Carly Rae Jepsen, I have decided to present my arguments for Björk's type without further delay.

Why Se-Ni over Ne-Si

With regards to self-expression, IDRlabs has said the following, "as we know from Myers, Jung and van der Hoop, types who have Ne as one of their two top functions (such as INFPs) tend to find self-expression easy. ... By contrast, we know from the same authors that the concepts distilled by Ni tend to have a hard time finding an outwards expression that adequately conveys what is going on inside." While both Fi-dominant types may often feel that they struggle to do their Fi vision justice with regards to self-expression, all else being equal, an ISFP is going to typically have a much harder time expressing themselves verbally than an INFP and will see words as inadequate when trying to convey the inner values that they hold inside. That is to say, compared to the INFP, the ISFP typically doesn't like talking about their art/actions, as to them the art/action speaks for itself:

Björk: "[On tour I] do them interviews and try to explain something which is actually quite unexplainable, really. You know, I was asked earlier today to name 3 of my favorite albums at the moment and why, and it's just impossible, you know? And music should be that way, you know? It's unexplainable. It's one of the few things we got left in our culture which is not explainable." [Source]

Björk: "I find it more important to make music than to talk about it." [Source]

Additionally to all that was previously stated, IDRlabs has said, "of all the 16 types, the ISFP is perhaps the type that is the most at odds with expressing themselves adequately, because of their Fi-Ni axis. But their difficulty with traditional modes of self-expression will frequently be made up for by ingenious modes of alternative self-expression. (Through music, art, design, etc.)" The following exchange between Björk and Charlie Rose showcases this:

Rose: "My sense about you, in reading and knowing a little about your music, is that you have always been in love with sound - all kinds of sound."

Björk: "Yeah."

Rose: "Not lyrics, sound?"

Björk: "Yeah."

Rose: "Right? Tell me about that - all kinds of sound."

Björk: "Yeah, it's just the one most all-embracing, forgiving, understanding thing there is. Just in the full abstraction of it, it doesn't ask any questions, and you don't have to explain yourself. And it's the one world where that can cover all of the emotional levels of you. I'm the sort of person, when it comes to say something like language or just communicating on a daily basis, I feel like I'm trying to put an ocean through a straw. And with music..."

Rose: "Because you feel so much, hear so much?"

Björk: "Maybe just because I'm not very good at it, you know, but with music, it doesn't feel like that. And it's not only me making music, it's also listening to other people's music that it's just like a warm embrace, you know?"

Once again, the common theme of struggling with verbal self-expression is evident. Björk herself acknowledges that when it comes to language or everyday communication, it feels like trying to fit an ocean through a straw. However, when it comes to music, this challenge doesn't exist. This aligns with IDRlabs' analysis of ISFPs, who face challenges in adequately expressing themselves verbally due to their Fi-Ni but will often compensate for this by finding ingenious alternative forms of self-expression such as music. It also corresponds with IDRlabs' observations about Ni users, who have difficulty expressing their internally generated concepts outwardly.

Furthermore, Björk expresses her affinity and affection for sound (in the empirical sense) rather than lyrics. She describes sound as an "all-embracing, forgiving, and understanding entity" that does not require explanations or justifications. This perspective aligns with IDRlabs' interpretation of Se, which emphasizes its tendency to see phenomena as "self-evident" and standing independently. As IDRlabs states, Se operates "off of phenomena that are to a greater degree capable of standing on their own (i.e. being thought more 'self-evident') than is the case with the other ... functions." Sound, to her, is self-evident in its emotional depth and ability to encompass various levels of human emotions which, to me, comes across as Se being subordinate to Fi. One might argue that I may be misinterpreting the meaning of "self-evident" in this particular context, as used by IDRlabs. However, in my understanding, "self-evident" in relation to Se implies perceiving something that inherently stands on it's own terms, without the need for further explanations. In my opinion, the quote applies to her quite accurately. It is worth noting that Se might be slightly muted in her case due to her not being Se dominant and not repressing Ni.

In addition to the challenge of expressing oneself, another case for Ni in the exchange is where she employs Ni to incorporate her comprehension of "the full abstraction" of physical objects (in this case, sounds in music). However, it is important to note that her Ni isn't "differentiated." That is to say that her use of Ni, in this context, is in service of Fi and Se rather than the other way around. As IDRlabs has said about Ni in ISPs, "[their] Ni [is often] channeled into specific objects (arts/crafts) instead of intellectual theories." In the case of Björk, her Ni is not used for its own sake, but rather to understand the physical qualities and aspects of music (Se) that corresponds with her dominant function (Fi).

Her perception of phenomena as "self-evident" extends beyond just music, as it also applies to her performances (though this could admittedly apply to Te as well in this context):

[Interviewer: "Did you have a good time on stage?"]
Björk: "Yeah, it was good."
[Interviewer: "Why was it good?"]
Björk: "You know, it's just a feeling thing really. Hard to describe, really. Either it functions or it doesn't." [Source]

While ISFPs are not typically as cerebral, radical or dogmatic as types with more conscious (dominant or auxiliary) Ni generally are, their ideas, with the help of their semi-conscious Ni, are more focused and singular compared to an INFP, assuming all other factors are equal. To mention the Charlie Rose interview for one last time, the following quote showcases a great example of this singularity:

Björk: "The reason why I don't want to act again is not because of the film ... it's more that I feel my time is running out, and if I'm lucky, I've got 50 years and I still haven't even touched ... the music I want to write. And you have to be loyal and give yourself away to the music you love to get some results, you know. I think [the] sort of shallow 'I'll try a bit of that, I'll try a bit that, I'll try a bit of that' is not gonna give good work." [Souce]

Another aspect of Tertiary Ni in the ISFPs is that it makes their ideas much more elusive, in the mind of the ISFP. That is to say, compared to the evocative inner world of the INFP (Fi-Si), the ISFP's inner world is more elusive (Fi-Ni). The ISFP is going to typically want to capture and express that image, even though it may be impossible to fully grasp. A good instance of this Fi-Ni axis manifesting itself in Björk is later in the previously mentioned interview with Charlie Rose:

Rose: "Is [there] anything you want that you don't have?"

Björk: [Pauses] "I feel, to be brutally honest, the music I can hear in my head, I'm still very, very far from making that. So I just really have to be careful to concentrate my time and to continue, and if I'm lucky, I will maybe do it ... before I die."

Rose: "What do you hear in your head? What music?"

Björk: [Takes long pause] "It's very hard to describe. I guess I would like it to be both a lot more better crafted and complicated, but at the same time, a lot, lot, lot more spontaneous and still feel effortless. But then again, it's hard... yeah, I can't explain it."

However, as a disclaimer, it's important to note that the INFP can still face difficulties in translating their vision, similar to the ISFP. While their internal landscape may be more accessible, the challenge lies in capturing and conveying the depth of their inner values in a way that fully aligns with their original vision. Both types can struggle with bridging the gap between the abstract and the concrete but in slightly different ways based on the unique dynamics of their cognitive functions.

In addition to all that has been said, because of this difficulty in "expression in words and analytical prose," as IDRlabs puts it, one will typically find the ISFP relying more heavily on, and may be more interested in, non-verbal forms of expression and communication that Björk expresses in these examples:

[Interviewer: "Do you see your show, when you're on stage, as some kind of entertainment or music primarily?"]

Björk: "I see it as a communication. I don't want to analyze it because it would make it very boring for me." [Source]

[Interviewer: "Obviously, we all think of you as a musician. So, what do you think of the acting business?"]

Björk: "I guess I'm not really impressed, really."

[Interviewer: "No?"]

Björk: "No."

[Interviewer: "You only had one go; it might get better. What didn't you like?"]

Björk: "There's too much talking. Yeah, I'm more into singing." [Source]

Although one may conveniently dismiss all this evidence by saying that English is not her first language, I don't believe the quotes (or at least most of them) I provided are directly related to the context of a language barrier but rather reflect her inclination towards Se-Ni, for the aforementioned reasons I already mentioned. But even if her language barrier did play a role, it does not detract from the fact that she, regards music as unexplainable, perceives music that speaks for itself, prioritizes creating music over talking about it, exhibits an empirical interest in sound rather than lyrics, favors non-verbal communication and expression, prefers not to analyze her performances, and views the film industry as excessively verbose.

Björk's Attitude Towards the Immediate Situation

Now, when assessing someone's type, the parameters will always be relative but one recurring characteristic found in many INFPs is their tendency to be at odds with reality. That is to say they often experience a certain discontentment or frustration with the status quo and are attuned to issues that transcend the immediate situation. This can be attributed, at least in part, to the prominence of Ne in their consciousness. According to Jung and Myers, individuals with conscious Ne constantly desire a means to transcend and break free from the limitations of their current circumstances, even if they are uncertain about how such liberation can be attained (As IDrlabs has said, "the escape from the status quo is worth more to the Ne type than the world as we know it). Another aspect of this is their Tertiary Si; because they are dominant Fi types who prefer Si over Se, they tend to seek a more perfect reality isolated within themselves. (Kurt Cobain is a good example)

By contrast, while an ISFP (or any other type) can also feel frustrated with the current state of affairs, all else being equal, they tend to be more in tune with the natural flow of life than INFPs. This is because their Se is fully conscious, which allows them to be more at ease with reality. This does not mean that ISFPs are never at odds with reality (they are dominant Fi types after all), but rather that they are more at ease with the world around them and more willing to work within existing circumstances. In other words, ISFPs are more inclined to make the best out of the immediate situation instead of constantly seeking ways to transcend or escape from it like INFPs. 

I don't see Björk typically displaying (at least comparative to other INFPs) the same need to escape the status quo. Rather, her expression is based around either accepting or embracing the immediate situation (as opposed to trying to step outside of it):

Björk: "Say, if I do my next album in '96, it will be '96, like more 'now'. Not the collection of old songs." [Source]

Björk: "All these people who say cars are so ugly, pollution’s so terrible—it’s true, but if you don’t want to live here then move into the forest. And if you are gonna live here, you might as well accept it and make the most out of it.” [Source]

[When asked if the development of science and technology interests her, and if it's connected to Iceland's modernization]

Björk: "I think it's not me being obsessed with technology. I think it's more I want to be alive 'now,' 1997, I'm a European, and I want to be truthful about what I'm about." [Source]

Björk: "I think there's bad sides to [fame] but also good sides to [fame]. You know, it's sort of a thing that happens to you. I've met enough people who do similar jobs as I do to figure out that it's not about if you want it to happen to you or if you don't want it to happen to you, it sort of picks you more ... and then you have to, I guess, you just have to kind of live with it. And there are times when you don't want any of it - you don't want the bad things to come with it and you don't want the good things ... but then you kind of realize, because you're gonna have to deal with the bad things whether you like it or not, then you might as well enjoy the good things. Which in my case, the fact that at any given time right now, if I were to write a song now, I could go into the studio and I could ask certain people to come, ... and I could put it out and it would come out in the record shop." [Source]

As an aside, I would like to note that these quotes can't simply be chalked up to over-active tertiary Si. I personally wouldn't give the Tertiary function that much credit (even though we shouldn't underestimate it) but even if we were to consider that perspective, all (or at least most of) the quotes that was mentioned in this blog seem to suggest that her relationship with the empirical world is more visceral, dynamic, and flowing than refined, restrained, and archived. In addition to all the quotes that has been mentioned in this blog, here are more quotes that seem to suggest a preference for Se over Si:

Björk: "What's kind of always truly been ... where my heart is, is making music and ... sounds, noises, and surroundings that I find exciting and interest me. While being a singer is mostly like a bit of a tool to be able to do that." [Source]

Björk: "It’s very important if you want to enjoy life to have excitement about it, curiosity and appetite for it. ... I’ve got quite a big appetite [with life], I take a lot but I give. I’m very much about that and that’s what keeps me going. I need that like a junkie almost with my friends and people I work with.” [Source]

Additional Notes

Lastly, I would like to showcase another quote from Björk that indicates a Sensation preference:

Björk: "One of the reasons why I made my album [was] because I admire pop music so much, but I was so tired of going to record shops and not finding pop that fulfilled me. I wanted to make really, really simple songs that are about my life, you know? Something I can identify with, you know? So, I ended up having to go and do it myself, you know? I listened to the radio all the time and the pop channels, but so few tunes out there have anything to do with my life. I can't identify with them, these things, they never happened to me." [Source]

While this quote may showcase her preference for Fi more than anything, one thing I also got out of this quote was her preference for the actual occurrence over conceptualization or abstract association. She wants simple songs that reflect her real-life experiences, music that has a direct connection to her own life rather than relying on abstract association.

Why Carly Rae Jepsen is ESFP (to IDRlabs)

By S. Kim

So I wrote and sent my blog post about Gwen Stefani's typing to IDRlabs through email, which they overlooked (probably due to their focus on personality tests). Instead of persistently seeking a response from them regarding my disagreement with their stance on Gwen Stefani's type, I have chosen to write about another person's typing that I also disagree with IDRlabs on. Regarding Carly Rae Jepsen specifically, she, just like Gwen Stefani, is also typed as ENFP, despite me personally believing they are ESFP. In this blog, I will seek to give an explanation as to why I disagree with IDRlabs with regards to Carly Rae Jepsen's type.

Her Direct Focus on the Ever-Changing Object

As Boye Akinwande puts it, “Se ... is an extroverted perception function that doesn’t seek to shape the current object, but to be aware of it in the most direct way possible and to magnify it. By engaging themselves with the relevant and essential objects ... they are able to appeal to a large demographic and flexibly make the most out of the current situation. Se types [can] often [be] singular and direct in pursuit of their goals, making them appear as extroverted judgment types, but through examining the history of their ideas it becomes clear that they are less consistent, more freely adapting themselves to the unordered ever-changing object.” Here are some quotes from Carly Rae Jepson that exemplify the previously stated description of Se:

Jepsen: "Keep your eye on the ball and don't expect that the second record is gonna be at all like the first record, and don't expect what's happening today is necessarily gonna be happening tomorrow." [Source]

Jepsen: "26 years of trying different avenues to hopefully get that breakout in Canada, and that's the goal. And you don't know how it works because there isn't sort of some set rule like 'if you do this, this, and this'. ... When young artists ask me, 'what do you do?' it's sort of like, 'I don't know,' because half my story has been very much based on luck and kind of being in the right place [at the] right time. ... I think about the 3 minimum wage jobs that I was keeping and the posters that I go around putting out myself in Canada. You can't really be too upset getting to travel and do music for a living." [Source]

Jepsen: "You have to understand, this wasn't like 'this happened to me because I casually went into a studio and made a song' ... I had been hustling since I was 7. Like if you were to ask me from age 7 on, 'what do you want to be?' I was like, 'a singer' ... My point is that this is a passion of mine. I couldn't believe it. So, it didn't matter if you had told me to do 14 interviews in 1 day. Didn't matter what the ask was, I was happy to be there. The answer was always yes. I was a little workhorse, but I was just like living my actual dream." [Source]

Jepsen: "The music industry is never going to be like a stagnant thing. It's always constantly evolving, and I think as an artist, what I look at is the challenge [of] figuring out how much you wanna morph around and change and be compatible with like the new stages of what kind of causes growth for your career." [Source]

In all of these quotes, the emphasis is on the realistic awareness of circumstances and making the most out of it. While one might say that Ne types are also capable of having this quality, one thing to consider is that Ne types, according to IDRlabs, "are often in danger of getting a bit high on their own thoughts and associations and then spending a lot of effort on those as opposed to spending a lot of effort on reality." There is also a lack of the transcendental quality that is typically associated with Ne within these quotes in that she is more focused on the immediate situations themselves (e.g. her saying "keep your eye on the ball" and "being in the right place [at the] right time") rather than "overstepping" it to get to the associations. As IDRlabs has said, "Intuition is not Sensation with an extra layer: Intuition oversteps the object, while Sensation remains with it." All else being equal, the quotes shown above, if taken holistically, indicate a preference for Se over any other perceiving function. For an even more concrete example of Se, look no further than the quote below:

Jepsen: "I don't overanalyze a song when I'm listening to it. ... If someone's asking me to, then I think I switch into that brain-head, but I can just kind of enjoy it. That being said, I think everyone can feel when, 'oh first listen, that song is quality and those melodies are so tight, and everything feels right away when I don't even need to listen to give a review on it.' ... It's like a slam dunk first listen. You don't need to go back and get used to it for it to be good." [Source]

In this quote, she is showcasing a preference for experiencing and feeling the object (in this case, a song) out to the fullest, without the need to conceptualize or make associations about it; what Jung coins "the highest pitch of actuality". In other words, her immediate reaction to a song is much more (colloquially) intuitive than associative. As Michael Pierce puts it (in his IDRlabs article: A Definition of Se and Si), "sensation is present so long as it is experienced ... from the thing itself, and not just from an idea about the thing, or a concept associated with the thing. ... For Sensation, it is whatever arises from the thing itself, as it stands, that is of primary psychic importance. Intuition, on the other hand, is not stimulated by the thing itself, but always by ... the associations that could be made on the basis of it. Intuition is concerned with what is about the thing, and not with the thing in itself." 

Now, when discussing about the differences between types and functions in Jungian Typology, it's important to remember that it's always relative. With that said, as we just touched upon eariler, S prioritizes the thing itself, whereas N focuses more on the associations surrounding the thing. If we take it that both S and N are extroverted, then Se "sticks" with the object (an innate attraction on the object itself, whether it'd be physical, abstract, etc.) while Ne bypasses the object and instead explores its intellectual associations (connecting-the-dots in an associstive manner rather than remaining with the objects themselves). To my mind, Jepsen prefers "sticking" with objects rather than "bypassing" them:

Jepsen: "As soon as I got to meet everybody [at the Junos], it was really casual and really laid back. And you know, there's great food, there's great people. And I honestly love the same thing that I loved watching them on TV, which was sort of seeing what everyone's wearing and kind of letting my little girly side come out." [Source]

Jepsen: "I love the way [Carly Simmons] writes, which is very ... to the point; there is not a lot of metaphor to it. But I think it's really relatable and honest. And I love her fashion sense, I love her taste in men [laughs]. I think that there's something really beautiful about that honesty. But also, like a great jazz song, it doesn't need to be totally confusing for it to still be really potent. And I think that sometimes a really direct lyric can be just as powerful, if not more." [Source]

One may argue that the 2nd quote regarding Jepsen's affinity for Simmons' direct and straightforward lyrics is more of a mental content, which I don't necessarily disagree with. I agree that we shouldn't anticipate individuals to communicate their cognitive processes directly (rather, we must construct a representation of the way in which the person's cognition operates) and we shouldn't take everything someone says about themselves at face value with regard to their cognitive process, but if we look at the quote in conjunction with all of the other quotes provided (as opposed to in isolation),  it supports the idea that Jepsen prefers "sticking" with objects rather than "bypassing" them.

Lack of Preference for Introspection 

If one is unfamiliar, IDRlabs adopts Kiersey's idea of merging introspection with Intuition. While I do agree with that idea in a general sense, I wouldn't take that statement too absolutely. From my observation, individuals who are Sensation types can still be introspective, despite Sensation being generally more extrospective than Intuition. Having said that, in my view it is less plausible to find an Intuitive type who is low in introspection than it is to find a Sensation type with decent level of introspection. That is to say that if the individual in question stated or showcased something that indicates a lack of preference for introspection, then it could be a good indicator that the individual is not an Intuitive dominant type (ENFP in this case):

[Interviewer: "Do you have, like, an idea, mantra, a way of viewing the world that you say, 'This is who I'm about'?"]

Jepsen: "I don't know if I really thought about it that much. I think, in general, I try to be really thankful and appreciative for everything that I have. And I think number one, always live in the moment - like be 'here' and be happy that I'm here and be happy that I'm talking to you, you know - and looking forward to seeing how far I can run with it." [Source]

Introspection, as IDRlabs sees it, is "the observation of one’s own mental states ... [and] close to the raw stream of mental experience.” When Carly Rae Jepsen is asked about her worldview or personal philosophy, her response indicates that she hasn't given this question much thought, saying "I really thought about it that much", indicating that she isn't very connected to the raw stream of her mental experience. However, as IDRlabs puts it, "this is not to say that more introspection is necessarily better or that 'Ns are Ss with an extra layer.' Barack Obama, by wide agreement, has a very high level of introspection, but has often been faulted for being indecisive and 'stuck in his own head' for this reason."

Another aspect that is worth mentioning is that, later in the quote, she emphasizes making the most out of a given situation, emphasizing being "in the moment" and "here", and seeing "how far" she can run with it. While some may argue that this aspect of the quote is more of a content (since the interviewer is asking about her personal philosophy) and therefore not a direct component of a type, which I somewhat agree in that while this part is not as strong as my argument regarding her lack of introspection above, it does serve as a good connection for evidence supporting Se considering all of the other evidence.

Introverted Feeling

Fi's values are based on interfacing with themselves (purified from outside influence) whereas Fe's values are based on interfacing with the outside world (informed by outside influence). As IDRlabs has said about Fi, "Introverted Feeling is attuned to the values that are peculiar to the individual’s own consciousness." I agree with IDRlabs that she is an Fi user. To my mind, her Feeling is primarily oriented towards subjective factors; in other words, when push comes to shove with regard to Feeling, she doesn't rely on some kind of external criteria:

Jepsen: "I'm still kinda in my exploration stage with the red carpet, where I think at the beginning I felt like 'oh it has to be this very elegant, sophisticated thing,' and then I would find myself on the red carpet almost playing the part of like this person who I'm not, which is [a] total, total gong show. And I realize more and more that for me, it's actually more important to find something I'm really comfortable in and that I still feel beautiful in, and you know, dress appropriately for the event, but that still feels very like me. ... It's kinda my decision to pick something that excites me." [Source]

Jepsen: "Before anyone had heard [my album] Emotion, I had to kind of figure out how I felt about it and let that be the truth. And then it landed for me as just something really honest that I felt passionate about. I was really proud of it and happy to share it, but I felt like whatever happens now could go either way. ... I just don't want to feel like it couldn't have gone the other way and that would have changed my feeling of it." [Source]

Jepsen: "I know some performers ... got like this stage idea, [but] I feel like I'm just myself, and I'm myself performing, and I'm myself at home. And obviously, you get to be a little bit more theatrical and over the top when you're on stage, but that's a very sincere part of my personality." [Source]

Jepsen: "I feel like I don't have to have an authentic self and a non-authentic self that I have to put a shield on or some make-up. I think that it's kind of maybe why I do shy away from big, big, big styles of celebrity life because I think you could get lost in that, and I try very hard not to. ... It's just not the part that appeals to me of 'what it is to be a musician'. It's much more about the music than it is about the fame." [Source]

Additional Notes

Moving on to this final bit, this part will take a step back from the functional approach and focus more on the general tendencies of the ESFP. As a disclaimer, typology is about cognition, the general tendencies exist because the functions in a certain order can often manifest in certain recognizable ways. But the keyword there is "often" and not "will." So all that to say, correlation is not causation (this really seems to be a problem in the typological community) and the general tendencies that will be mentioned are incidental and not essential. 

However, with all that said, if we look at this section in conjunction with all of the evidence provided (as opposed to as an island unto itself), I think it's a good addition. Now that we got that disclaimer out of the way, IDRlabs in their ESFP description has stated that "most ESFPs love to live vivaciously and will approach their tasks and hobbies in a spontaneous and energetic manner where they see life as an adventure" and that "their primary interest lies in seeking out all that life has to offer, and exploring a multitude of adventures in search of mindfulness and self-expression. ... ESFPs tend to be people and imminence oriented", both of those characteristics fit Carly Rae Jepsen very well:

Jepsen: "If you saw even the background leading up to getting any success in Canada, it was a long, sort of treacherous hike. ... Even when it wasn't working, I had no intention of giving up. I'll be like, 'Well, this will still be a fun adventure to try forever.'" [Source]

Jepsen: "I wanna keep touring. I wanna keep making music that's always like a 'what album can I make next' kind of feeling. It's just in my blood for sure, but I have a whole list of goals. I'm really excited about getting to shift direction at some point into the Broadway world. I don't know what that looks like, but that's always been a dream of mine - to kind of redirect focus into theater. But right now, I'm just enjoying getting to tour and celebrate this album." [Source]